{"version": "1.0", "type": "rich", "title": "Metals of antiquity - Wikipedia", "author_name": "kontextmaschine", "author_url": "https://kontextmaschine.com", "provider_name": "kontextmaschine", "provider_url": "https://kontextmaschine.com", "url": "https://kontextmaschine.com/post/718056807830061056/", "html": "<p><a class=\"tumblr_blog\" href=\"https://raginrayguns.tumblr.com/post/718045640401305600/yeah-thats-hot-i-think-the-electrolytic-process\" target=\"_blank\">raginrayguns</a>:</p><blockquote><p><a class=\"tumblr_blog\" href=\"https://necarion.tumblr.com/post/717982825983410176/best-i-can-find-is-here-if-you-use-carbon-to-take\" target=\"_blank\">necarion</a>:</p><blockquote><p><a class=\"tumblr_blog\" href=\"https://raginrayguns.tumblr.com/post/717974483804291072/by-melt-it-into-aluminum-do-you-mean-i-dont\" target=\"_blank\">raginrayguns</a>:</p><blockquote><p><a class=\"tumblr_blog\" href=\"https://necarion.tumblr.com/post/717973862005997568/you-can-heat-it-enough-to-melt-it-into-aluminum\" target=\"_blank\">necarion</a>:</p><blockquote><p><a class=\"tumblr_blog\" href=\"https://raginrayguns.tumblr.com/post/717958048583434240/agox-said-aluminum-used-to-be-a-precious-metal\" target=\"_blank\">raginrayguns</a>:</p><blockquote><p><a class=\"tumblr_blog\" href=\"https://raginrayguns.tumblr.com/post/717954218466607104/metals-of-antiquity-wikipedia\" target=\"_blank\">raginrayguns</a>:</p><blockquote><p class=\"npf_link\" data-npf='{\"type\":\"link\",\"url\":\"https://href.li/?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metals_of_antiquity\",\"display_url\":\"https://href.li/?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metals_of_antiquity\",\"title\":\"Metals of antiquity - Wikipedia\",\"description\":\"Metals of antiquity - Wikipedia\",\"site_name\":\"en.wikipedia.org\",\"poster\":[{\"media_key\":\"38c52be8963c51af77dc234ed1816af0:4652476911d80027-f1\",\"type\":\"image/jpeg\",\"width\":1200,\"height\":1803}]}'><a href=\"https://href.li/?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metals_of_antiquity\" target=\"_blank\">Metals of antiquity - Wikipedia</a></p><p>gold, silver, copper, tin, lead, iron, and mercury</p><p>no aluminum. I assume large scale aluminum use is a post-electricity thing? Cause you get it from the ore with electrochemistry somehow? Reducing aluminum oxide id guess</p></blockquote><p><a class=\"tumblelog\" href=\"https://tmblr.co/M5NypU47zV1JqdPrcCMrsXg\" target=\"_blank\">@agox</a> said:</p><blockquote class=\"npf_indented\"><p>Aluminum used to be a precious metal. Like, Napoleon had an aluminum silverware set and the Washington Monument is capped with aluminum. You&rsquo;re absolutely right about refining bauxite into aluminum being a post-electricity thing. I&rsquo;m not too keen on the process, but I think it involves melting ore with giant electrical arcs in an oxygen poor atmosphere</p></blockquote><p>hmm you do have to melt it but <a href=\"https://web.archive.org/web/20180225224144/http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_gateway_pre_2011/periodictable/electrolysisrev3.shtml\" target=\"_blank\">it is electrochemistry</a>, if you just heated it all you&rsquo;d get is molten aluminum oxide i guess, an electric potential is driving transfer of electrons from oxygen to aluminum atoms</p></blockquote><p>You can heat it enough to melt it into aluminum, but it&rsquo;s like a thousand degrees more. More even than when you don&rsquo;t have the catalyst. Doable, but not in antiquity when they couldn&rsquo;t even melt iron. </p></blockquote><p>By &ldquo;melt it into aluminum&rdquo; do you mean&hellip; I don&rsquo;t know, this is a chemical reaction, it&rsquo;s not melting.</p><p>I guess, at some temperature, it goes from liquid alumina to liquid aluminum with evolution of oxygen? This should happen at some temperature for entropic reasons, but I can&rsquo;t find any information about such a process (such as what temperature is required, or that there&rsquo;s a catalyst).</p></blockquote><p>Best I can find is here, if you use carbon to take away the oxygen in the bauxite, but at around 2000C </p><p><a href=\"https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/166979/how-do-i-derive-metallic-aluminum-without-electricity\" target=\"_blank\">https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/166979/how-do-i-derive-metallic-aluminum-without-electricity</a></p><p>Also important to point out that it was not Napoleon who had the aluminum cutlery, but his nephew, Napoleon III. Aluminum wasn\u2019t isolated until 1834.</p></blockquote><p>yeah, that&rsquo;s hot. I think the electrolytic process is at like a thousand degrees celsius, so this is like a thousand hotter, as you originally recalled.</p></blockquote>\n<p>Aluminum refining takes so much electricity it&rsquo;s used as a way to export the value of renewable electricity generation with no nearby uses; bulk cargo ships haul bauxite ore to Iceland to use their geothermal power or to Siberia to use refineries powered off hydroelectric dams in the middle of nowhere.</p>"}